By Peter Tonguette
The show “Shrinking” tackles the thorny topic of psychotherapy with good-natured humor, leavened with sincere sentiment.
The much-praised comedy-drama, which will soon enter its third season on the Apple TV+ streaming service, has at its center therapist Jimmy Laird (Jason Segel). Upon becoming a widower, Jimmy unshackles himself from some of the norms of his vocation and adopts a franker approach with the patients in his charge. Meanwhile, fellow therapists Paul Rhoades (Harrison Ford) and Gaby Evans (Jessica Williams) face their own balancing act of attending to their problems, including Paul’s Parkinson’s disease diagnosis, while not shirking their responsibility to their patients.
It all adds up to a show that required a deft and sensitive touch from picture editors James Renfroe and Sarah Lucky. Renfroe, who has been with “Shrinking” since its first season, and Lucky, who joined for the second season, seek to draw out the comedic potential inherent in any series starring the likes of Segel and Ford while also honoring its emotional complexity. (Picture editors Katie Abel, Missy Hernandez, and Peggy Tachdjian, ACE, have also worked on episodes over the course of the series’ two seasons.) For the upcoming Emmy Awards, the series drew 9 nominations, including for Outstanding Comedy Series, as well as for Ford and Segal’s leading roles.
CineMontage recently spoke with Renfroe and Lucky about their role of postproduction “therapists” figuring out the needs of their “patient”—a uniquely witty and candid show.
CineMontage: James, you’ve been with “Shrinking” since its inception.
James Renfroe: That’s correct. I did the pilot episode and then stayed throughout that first season and have been on since then. I am thrilled to have the work, and to be working on something that I care about so strongly.
CineMontage: What initially appealed to you about the show?
Renfroe: I had mostly worked on traditional sitcoms prior to this show. I spent six years on a show called “Superstore.” The directing EP was Ruben Fleischer, and after the second season of that show, I followed Ruben to do a pilot with Warner Bros. that was with [“Shrinking” producers] Bill Lawrence and Kip Kroeger. It was a workplace comedy set in a SpaceX kind of location and it didn’t go. After “Superstore” finished its run, I heard from Kip that there was a show starting in the spring. It was November. I said, “What’s the show?” He didn’t really have a lot to tell me at the time but it starred Jason Segel and it would be sort of a comedy with heart. Then Harrison got onboard. I start pinching myself. Then I got the script and I showed it to my wife who was like, “This is good, right?” And I’ve been pinching myself ever since. Initially I said yes partly the way that I say yes to a lot of projects, which is they’re willing to pay me to do this thing Ilove. But it ended up being a show that was so endearing and really touches so many people. It’s nice to work on something that has value beyond your paycheck.
CineMontage: How would you differentiate “Shrinking” from some of the traditional sitcoms you’ve cut?
Renfroe: On “Superstore,” in general, we shied away from some of the emotion. When those moments arose, we would sort of hint at them but not really dig in. I didn’t always get the chance to play and use the tools at our disposal in the way that we can on “Shrinking.” The music on the show really helps to bring the scenes and sequences together. Christa Miller, who plays Liz on the show, is also the music supervisor, along with Tony Von Pervieux. That whole toolbox is something that a lot of sitcom editors are desperate to open, but they don’t really get the opportunity.
This show allows for that blend of comedy and heart in a way that feels realistic. It’s about getting a sense of what feels right and, in those moments of drama, to allow us to suspend our disbelief. I never think of Jimmy as Jason, and I rarely think of Paul as Harrison. I really think of them as their characters, and I try to build a world where these characters feel real, likeable, and engaging.
CineMontage: Sarah, how did you join “Shrinking”?
Sarah Lucky: I got involved with the show kind of randomly. I had worked with Randall Keenan Winston who is a producing director on the show, and I had also worked with [writer-producer] Matt Tarses, who is Bill Lawrence’s best friend. I ran into him during the writers’ strike, and he was saying, “Oh, we have to work together again.” At the end of the year, I got a call about “Shrinking,” which I thought was from Randall but I actually think was from Matt. But I was really excited because the cast was amazing. It’s very much like a family. The caliber of the show is just amazing.
CineMontage: What is your approach as you start constructing an episode?
Lucky: I don’t really do selects. I’ll watch the footage, and I usually watch everything. If there’s a specific joke or a specific thing that I definitely want to use, I might pull it and write it down. But I’ll watch it all and then just start building the dialogue to see how it flows. If I don’t like a certain read, I’ll go to other takes. I usually create a rough cut of the scene, and then go back and fine-tune it. We’re fortunate to have a little bit of time between some of our cuts, so when I return to an episode, I might lose two minutes if I’ve had three weeks away. First and foremost, I want to believe in the people, and I want to believe in what I’m watching.
Renfroe: I can’t do it the way that Sarah does it because my memory isn’t great. I pull selects from each scene start to finish for all of the takes and performances. I’m hitting play from the beginning basically every time. It’s not a fastprocess. Then I really start to trim and find my pattern. I ask myself, “Do I want to be in the wide or the medium here?” I try to find what feels real. Just because the performance might read or sound best in one place doesn’t mean it actually fits in a scene the best. It’s ultimately about how it feels and flows.
CineMontage: How do you create the right rhythm for the show?
Lucky: We want to keep it interesting because it’s two people talking in a room. You never want it to feel like it’s going on forever. Yet you need your right pauses and your right breaths, especially if you’re dealing with drama and especially in a therapy session. You also want the little light moments to feel real and not like “ba-da-boom—there’s your funny jokes.” It has to feel natural. It’s up to us to keep that rhythm just right. You also don’t want to speed through any of it because then it feels unnatural.
Renfroe: In a scene that’s two-and-a-half minutes, just like in life, we will throw in a joke, we will pepper in some things if you have an opportunity for that realism. I think the nature of these scenes and the nature of the way the show works allows for that kind of stuff.
Lucky: Sometimes there will be jokes that I love or an ad-lib that I love, and I circle my whole cut around that one joke only to find out that I can’t make it work.
CineMontage: Harrison Ford’s character, Paul, is contending with Parkinson’s disease. How do you deal with that aspect of his character editorially?
Renfroe: On-set, and I think in life, Harrison is a bit of a prankster. He’s got a pretty good sense of humor. He’s used to doing more dramatic stuff, but he’s funny. The role fits him well. The thing that I found myself focused on about his performance is making sure he looks good, and determining how set in the Parkinson’s is. There are symptoms of Parkinson’s, like difficulty getting sentences out or his hands shaking. There are times where we try to highlight those things, but I feel like I land on more of a TV version of Parkinson’s. It works if there is some difficulty getting a line but, but if it takes too long, I feel like Bill is going to be like: “Hurry up.”
Lucky: Harrison and Jason have great chemistry. Even in the dailies, you can just tell. They get along really well, and it’s very natural.
CineMontage: Do you find the show to be collaborative?
Renfroe: Editors are given license to present their pass. We don’t end up working a ton with the directors. The directors come in and do their normal thing, but it really is when we work with Kip and Bill that the fine-tuning begins. It’s also a good time for us to revisit a scene. Anything I’ve tagged as like “I don’t think this joke needs to live here,” I can finally pitch. For me, my editor’s pass feels like a test that I’m trying to score 100 on, but once I get past that and we understand it’s collaborative, I love that we can sort of shape and find things together.
